История одной иммиграции. Очень короткая.

[Chewbacca]

Ну ты ж его первый в принадлежности к полиции заподозрил. А ну как он один из тех четверых убивцев? А на форуме новую жертву своему коллективу ищет? А ты его разоблачил вот так одним махом?
Вот и будет - сегодня ты, а завтра я, за то, что тему развил. Будешь вот так следующий раз ехать, а тебя остановят и вместо вопроса пил или нет - тейзером с места, за разоблачение. За правду пострадаешь.

[Sergey]

Disgusting. Because of one retarded person, Canadian
taxpayers are going to be paying millions of dollars every year...

Retarded persons было 1+4.

Обидно, конечно, из-за непрофессионализма полиции выбрасывать дополнительные деньги...

[Oleg]

> Oleg, а сколько стоит жизнь одного человека?

The millions of dollars that they are going to be spending could have been used to save MANY MORE lives. That's the thing - many people just received a death sentence (an indirect one). The money will not be spent on things that are more productive (lives saved per $), so all of those people will have to die now, because of something dumb like that.

And to answer your question - the decision makers in the government value it at around $1.54 million dollars:

http://ideas.repec.org/p/iza/izadps/dp571.html
"In 1987 the federal government permitted states to raise the speed limit on their rural interstate roads, but not on their urban interstate roads, from 55 mph to 65 mph for the first time in over a decade. Since the states that adopted the higher speed limit must have valued the travel hours they saved more than the fatalities incurred, this experiment provides a way to estimate an upper bound on the public’s willingness to trade off wealth for a change in the probability of death. We find that the 65 mph limit increased speeds by approximately 3.5% (i.e., 2 mph), and increased fatality rates by roughly 35%. In the 21 states that raised the speed limit and for whom we have complete data, the estimates suggest that about 125,000 hours were saved per lost life. Valuing the time saved at the average hourly wage implies that adopting states were willing to accept risks that resulted in a savings of $1.54 million (1997$) per fatality, with a sampling error that might be around one-third this value."

> Сколько стоит безопасность и удобство тысяч и тысяч пассажиров?

Exactly!! Instead of doing something that Really improves our safety (searching passengers comes to mind, but there must be many other activities)[improve our safety or удобство], people will now be paid to sit and stare at the security cameras to make sure that no dumb person just stops in his or her tracks and just sits there for hours.

> Oleg а чего ты так полицию защищаеш? Может ты в полиции служиш?

No, I don't work for the police department. One has to be a very brave person to serve with the police these days. They have to confront scary people, and their hands are Tied.

Well, my natural reaction is always to be on the side of the people who are on My side, who are there to protect me. I am actually grateful to these people. I wouldn't be able to do what they do.

> Интересно чтобы ты сказал если бы этот несчастный человек был бы твоим родсвенныком или другом?

I already answered this question (truthfully). If I or anyone I am related to were to behave the way that man behaved, I would blame the person who was the first to behave in a violent way, and not the police.

> Просто сегодня ты а завтра я.

I can't imagine myself breaking into a secure area at the airport and then behaving in an erratic way. So, I know for a fact that I have nothing to worry about.

> Олег высказывает свою точку зрения а я свою,в споре рождается истина.

Very true!

[Me]

Это был риторический вопрос, вообще-то...
Я даже не думал, что на него можно даже попытаться дать ответ, ну да ладно. Looks like there is nothing I can do about it, so I'm giving up.

[Oleg]

> Посмотрим какой суд в канаде.

Did I miss something? As far as I know, they have never been actually accused of anything. Not officially, anyway. An internal investigation is underway. There is Always an internal investigation when someone dies in the custody of police.


I reread Old-Ko's original post in this thread. He writes:

"Он ходил и ломал все что попадало под руку. " and then he writes

"Странно почему была вызвана RCMP"

[Oleg]

> Это был риторический вопрос, вообще-то...
> Я даже не думал, что на него можно даже попытаться дать ответ

All I am saying is that certain investments result in more lives per $ invested. We should be investing into the most efficient ways to save lives. Investing into something as inefficient as this means that we won't be investing into the efficient ways of saving lives.

Investing inefficiently, when it comes to these things is a sign that we DON'T value human lives in Canada. I believe that if one CARES about saving human lives, one would be supporting the police. Because this strategy seems to be the one which will result in more people being alive at the end of the day.

[Oleg]

Old_Ko, do you think that the case below is similar to Vancouver airport taser incident?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Burton

Just curious.

[Старый Ко]

Нет.

[Oleg]

Here is a similar story.
http://canadianpress.google.com/article ... ypPg0TIOVw

At first, I thought that in this case the cops were wrong. But after I thought about it, I started to agree with the way they handled the situation. Also, like the expert from Taser said
"The alternatives are clubbing, pepper spraying and wrestling."

I don't want our policemen to be put in the harm's way, if there is a way for them not to be put in the harm's way.

[Oleg]

Sometimes Canadian authorities can still make use of their common sense: Mounties will not be charged in B.C. taser death

Справедливость восторжествовала! Too bad this won't be the case in Greece...

[Apasholimenos]

Mounties will not be charged in B.C. taser death

RCMP lawyers at Taser inquiry say firefighter didn't see whole picture

[Старый Ко]

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columb ... ended.html

Чего-то не так тут с полицейскими в Канаде, вернее так как с ментами в России.

Дважды убийца, а ему зарплату платят.

Я только сейчас об этом узнал.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columb ... named.html

[Oleg]

Maybe he was drinking because of the witch hunt that began after that retarded alcoholic asshole died.

[Groucho]

Олег, во-первых, Ваше высказывание отвратительно. На Вашем месте я бы его радикально изменил и извинился. На месте модератора -- просто удалил бы. Мягко говоря, Вы меня разочаровали. А грубо говорить я не стану -- не так воспитан. Во-вторых, проблемы у этого, с позволения сказать, полицейского начались очень давно. Его бывший начальник про это знал, докладывал наверх и пытался его уволить, но его вместо этого... перевели в Ванкувер.

Вообще, надо иметь исключительно предвзятую точку зрения, чтобы игнорировать всю мерзость, которая вскрылась в результате Braidwood Inquiry.

[Oleg]

Олег, во-первых, Ваше высказывание отвратительно. На Вашем месте я бы его радикально изменил

Originally, I was going to say that I am ashamed to be living in a country where a policeman who had to go through what this man had to go through, is being investigated. He lived through a traumatic experience. He should have been given a promotion, and a vacation to allow him to recover from the stress, and having to deal with with all of this nonsense, and evil.

Его бывший начальник про это знал, докладывал наверх и пытался его уволить, но его вместо этого... перевели в Ванкувер.

What kind of problems? Well, that might explain the drunk driving. But these problems have nothing to do with what happened at the airport, since the police officers didn't do anything wrong at the airport. I don't know what kind of a monster would want to take away police officers' ability to defend themselves from mraz like D.

игнорировать всю мерзость, которая вскрылась в результате Braidwood Inquiry

Knowing that this inquiry is taking place, makes me feel like a Polish person who lived near the train tracks during WWII, and saw all of the trains headed for concentration camps. Since I can't do anything about the inquiry, I choose to pretend like it is not happening. I don't read any news stories about this inquiry. In any case, what kind of мерзость do you have in mind?


By the way, were you upset because I called D a "retarded alcoholic asshole"? What part of it do you disagree with?!?!?!?!?? He was retarded because he stayed there and didn't try to find a way out. Only a dumb, or a retarded person would continue being aggressive after he is confronted by three police officers with tasers. He was obviously an alcoholic. And only an asshole would start trashing someone else's stuff, and behave the way he behaved.

On one hand, we have police officers who placed themselves in harm's way, in order to protect the public. When someone runs into a fire and saves a child, people refer to that person as a hero. Heros put themselves in harm's way, in order to help others. On the other hand, we have an aggressive retarded alcoholic asshole vandal who was completely out of control. Why do we need an inquiry??? What kind of an "up is down", "black is white" mentality would compel one to not support these officers?

[Groucho]

Олег, Ваши рассуждения напомнили мне высказывание министра внутренних дел России Иванова, сделанное после того, как его сын сбил на пешеходном переходе старушку. Напомню, что старушка после удара пролетела метров 10-15 и скончалась, многочисленные свидетели пропали, на зятя убитой завели уголовное дело, а про сына Иванов сказал почти то же, что и вы: дескать, бедный мальчик lived through a traumatic experience. Ну, что ж, welcome, как говорится, to the club!

К счастью, Канада не Россия. Расследование выявило вопиющие нарушения (и не только со стороны полиции). Есть надежда, что уголовное дело против полицейских все-таки заведут. А уж насчет гражданского иска можно практически не сомневаться. Жаль только, что компенсация в конечном итоге будет выплачена из кармана налогоплательщика. Не думаю, что именно мы должны расплачиваться за полное отсутствие квалификации у полицейских, равно как и за их ложь, и за попытки полицейского начальства их выгородить (тут, конечно, дело не столько в них, сколько в отчаянном нежелании признать катастрофически низкий уровень подготовки полицейских).

Степень Вашей предвзятости такова, что Вы считаете возможным кощунствовать, не только практически ничего не зная об этом инциденте, но даже бравируя своим незнанием (я, кстати, специально воздерживался от участия в этой теме, потому что ждал, что покажет расследование). Прошу прощения за резкость, но дальнейшая дискуссия с Вами была бы ниже моего достоинства.

[Oleg]

Just to help me understand where you are coming from, Groucho, may I please ask you to tell me whose side you would support in the famous case below:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernhard_Goetz
Would you take the side of the muggers, or the side of their intended victim? Inquiries are important to you, so keep in mind that the jury found Goetz not guilty.

I hope you will reply at least to the question above.

=======================

а про сына Иванов сказал почти то же, что и вы: дескать, бедный мальчик lived through a traumatic experience.

The person's guilt or innocence makes a big difference. If someone steps out in front of speeding train, then the train operator (who followed the instructions and did nothing wrong) is said to have lived through a traumatic experience.

равно как и за их ложь

So that's the "всю мерзость, которая вскрылась в результате Braidwood Inquiry" that you were talking about?! ложь? Sometimes, I imagine, a Jewish person in Germany in 1940 would lie about his nationality to the authorities. ложь is justified when one is being investigated for the things that one is not supposed to be investigated for.

практически ничего не зная об этом инциденте, но даже бравируя своим незнанием

I followed this case very closely during the first couple of weeks following the incident. There is not much to know. Here are the facts - the officers' instructions are to use their tasers when the suspect is not cooperating; D did not cooperate. I can't think of anything else that is relevant to this case.

Too bad that instead of sending the public a message: "Abide the law and cooperate with police", the authorities decided to send the message to the police: "Nobody is expecting you to do anything, in fact you will probably get in trouble if you try to stand in criminal's way".

Прошу прощения за резкость, но дальнейшая дискуссия с Вами была бы ниже моего достоинства.

I bet you decided to write the above, because you couldn't think of any arguments to support the position that D is not a violent alcoholic asshole. I also can't think of anything.

[Administrator]

У меня человеческая просьба ко всем (хотя в данном случае - к Старому Ко), не поднимать темы, последнее сообщение в которых датируется более чем несколькими месяцами назад.
Я не знаю, как это сделать на техническом уровне (я имею в виду закрывать такие темы автоматически), но мусолить одно и то же много лет кажется не совсем правильным.
Есть кнопка Новая Тема, ее можно использовать.