Презентация колледжа Конестога (Ватерлоо, Канада) в Москве

[Apasholimenos]

Может, кому интересно будет
http://www.interlogos.ru/news/279.html

[Бойцовый кролик]

Может, кому интересно будет
http://www.interlogos.ru/news/279.html

О! Теперь про нашу деревню будут и в порту семи морей знать!!

[Apasholimenos]

Дык давно уже знают! Деревенька-то ваша небольшая, но ее жители такие патриоты, что слава о ней уже перешагнула границы Канады и доплыла и до нашего порта двенадцати морей.

[kalinovka]

Жалко, я не в Москве живу. Сходил бы обязательно. Так получилось, что серьезно присматриваю Conestoga College. Меня привлекло, то что студентам этого колледжа можно оформить разрешение на работу off campus. Присматриваю какую-нибудь ит-шную или инженерную специальность. А есть кто-нибудь на форуме, кто может поподробнее рассказать про этот колледж ?

Еще вопрос в общем про учебу - а учебники приобретаются отдельно ? Не входят в плату за академический год ?

[ngootkina]

Еще вопрос в общем про учебу - а учебники приобретаются отдельно ? Не входят в плату за академический год ?

Ага... друг рассказывал, что-то типа 2000дол за обучение (курс 4-5 мес), 1800 за учебники.

[Apasholimenos]

Ага... друг рассказывал, что-то типа 2000дол за обучение (курс 4-5 мес), 1800 за учебники.

Ни фига себе!!!

[kalinovka]

Ни фига себе!!!

Я вот набрел на bookstore на сайте колледжа. Цены действительно не дешевые.

К примеру:

EECE1040 - Electronics I
Electronic Devices And Circuit Theory (Required)
Web SKU: WW00282131
Author: Boylestad, Robert L. Publisher: Prentice-Hall, Inc.
Edition: 10 Cover: Hardback
On Hand: 35 On Order: 0
Price: $152.75

А ежели шесть-семь таких в семестр... Хорошая сумма получается.

А интересно, б/у учебники как-нибудь можно найти ? Или запрещено условиями учебы ?

[Apasholimenos]

А интересно, б/у учебники как-нибудь можно найти ? Или запрещено условиями учебы ?

Присоединяюсь к вопросу.

[ngootkina]

Как говорит мой папа, "даю точный ответ: не знаю".

Однако, по логике вещей, если учиться в колледже, то там на какой-нибудь местной bulletin board можно найти учебники, я думаю, или поместить объявление о покупке за полцены... Не знаю, правда, как быть с годом выпуска: вдруг будут требоваться новейшие?!

[Oleg]

> А ежели шесть-семь таких в семестр... Хорошая сумма получается.
> А интересно, б/у учебники как-нибудь можно найти ? Или запрещено условиями учебы

Usually it is 5 per semester, or 10 per year. You can buy used books at the bookstore, they are cheaper. You can also sell your book (usually for 50% of its original price) at the end of the year, provided the publisher doesn't announce that they are going to go to a new edition of this text book next year.

Many students share books, or photocopy relevant chapters. It costs about $10 to photocopy 100 pages. So you can get a text for about $30-50 and share it.

I got most of my A+'s after I stopped buying textbooks and started to concentrate on instructor's lecture notes.

[kalinovka]

Oleg, thank you for your answer!

And may I ask you some questions about tuition ? What college have you graduated ? (if it is not a secret)

[kalinovka]

Попалась мне статейка на тему ксерокопирования учебников вот здесь - http://www.thestar.com/printArticle/568628. Так что, не очень то это поощряется.

Textbook piracy thriving around city's campuses

STEVE RUSSELL/TORONTO STAR

Cyrene Wu, a U of T engineering student who has used photocopied textbooks, cites the high cost of post-secondary education: "I'm saving where I can." January 10, 2009


Kenyon Wallace
STAFF REPORTER

The high cost of university textbooks in Canada is driving students and copy shops to contravene federal copyright law, creating a thriving underground photocopying industry.

A Star investigation found 10 copy shops near the University of Toronto and Ryerson University willing to either photocopy full textbooks or allow customers to use self-serve copy machines before binding the pages together – creating books as good as new at a fraction of the cost.

Some copy shop employees confronted by the Star said crushing academic costs prompted them to duplicate texts as a "favour" to students. One said simply it was a good way to make money.

Students say they understand photocopying textbooks is akin to stealing from publishers, but argue they have no choice given the high cost of post-secondary education. Depending on the subject, new textbooks can cost as much as $300 per course, adding up to a yearly tab of $1,300 or more.

Publishers say the underground industry across Canada costs $75 million annually in lost revenue, a quarter of their business. Both large and small copy shops have been accused of the practice.

In 2007, office supply chain Business Depot was sued for $10 million by Access Copyright, a collective representing some of the country's biggest publishers, which alleged the chain allows people to copy books. In its statement of defence, Business Depot argued it only makes copies when customers claim to own the copyright or have the owner's permission to copy the work. The case is before the courts.

Last year a Montreal man received a six-month jail sentence for contempt because he ignored court orders to stop selling photocopied textbooks at his shop near Concordia University.

While the Canadian Copyright Act provides criminal penalties for copyright infringement (including fines and jail time), cases typically go through civil court, where the remedies are usually financial damages or a court order prohibiting further copying.

Copyright law exists to protect the financial rights of copyright owners, such as writers, artists and publishers. It is illegal to copy a creative work without a licence or permission from the copyright owner.

The Star probed the issue after hearing from students and other sources that the practice is widespread. As most students return to class this week, publishing collective Access Copyright is expecting a spike in photocopying.

On each visit to a copy centre, a Star reporter posed as a student, returning later to confront the clerk or copy centre owner. Of 12 shops visited, 10 either provided copies or said they would copy. Two said they would not.

An employee of Copy & Print Centre Internet Café on Bloor St. near Brunswick Ave. said her store often copies textbooks, "especially when new school terms start."

Indeed, when a Star reporter posing as a student in possession of a popular university calculus textbook asked to have a textbook copied and bound, the process seemed business as usual. A simple order form was provided on which the customer indicates how many copies of the book are required, the colour of the binding and the type of cover desired. The reporter ordered two copies. Two days later they were ready for pickup. The unit price: $48, tax included.

The 763-page book sells for about $190 new at the U of T bookstore.

When the reporter asked the employee if she knew she was breaking copyright law, she acknowledged she did but referred any questions to the store manager.

When contacted, manager Anderson An said he alone was responsible for encouraging the practice. The reason?

"To make more money," An said, adding that part of his salary is commission-based. The more photocopies the shop makes, the higher An's paycheque.

He vowed to stop the practice immediately, which he said he knows violates copyright law.

Carlton Printers, a small copy shop on Carlton St. near Ryerson University, also photocopied the calculus textbook when a Star reporter posing as a student requested the service.

The store manager said it would be "no problem." The next day the Star got a copy for $97.

In an interview, manager Abdul Rajpar said he sometimes does "favours" for students when they complain of high university costs.

"They can't afford $250 ... they can get it done for $100," said Rajpar.

Rajpar said commercial printing is his main source of revenue and copying for students makes up a small part of his business.

A clerk at D.O.S. Copy & Printing on Gerrard St. E. told a Star reporter posing as a student that he could provide five copies of the calculus textbook for about $220.

Later, when confronted by the reporter, the clerk seemed unaware that selling copies of textbooks is illegal.

D.O.S. owner John Lee said his employee sometimes feels sorry for students complaining of high university costs.

"They come and say 'Can you please help me out because the book costs so much money. I can't survive ... every night I have spaghetti for dinner.' They have to do anything to survive," Lee said.

He stressed photocopying texts was not common at his shop.

University students interviewed by the Star say a combination of high prices for new textbooks, costly tuition and the plethora of copy shops willing to photocopy textbooks encourage the practice.

"It's important for me to make sure that I'm saving where I can and to make sure that I have enough money to last me for the whole year," said Cyrene Wu, 20, a third-year civil engineering student at U of T, who admits to using photocopied textbooks. "It may not be ethical and some students don't like doing it ... but because there's such a huge service for it, especially there are so many photocopy shops, it's too easy ... and it's also much faster."

Wu, who pays about $9,000 in tuition, says students find ingenious ways to save money. In some engineering streams at the U of T, students take many of their classes together, allowing textbooks and course packs to be shared easily, she says. Or a group of students will pool enough money to buy one textbook and then have a local copy shop make as many copies as needed, according to Wu.

"The more people you get, the cheaper it becomes," she said.

New engineering and medical textbooks are particularly expensive and can range from $150 to $300 for a single book. It's not unusual for students in other areas of study to spend more than $1,000 annually on textbooks — a cost that many simply can't afford.

Jonathan Asmis is president of the U of T engineering society and a fifth-year biomedical engineering student.

"In theory I am stealing from the publishers," said Asmis, 21. "Some things that are questionable in the law sometimes get turned to, just for the sake of saving money."

Statistics Canada reports that undergraduate tuition increased 3.6 per cent on average for the 2008-09 academic year, compared to the previous year. This follows a 2.8 per cent increase in 2007-08.

Textbook prices have risen at twice the rate of inflation over the last two decades — an average of 6 per cent per year since 1987 — according to a 2005 study by the U.S. Government Accountability Office. A proliferation of new editions and the "bundling" of CD-ROMs and workbooks with textbooks contributed significantly to the price increases, the study found.

Of course, the more students copy textbooks, the higher the prices go, especially for limited print runs in specialized subjects.

Some courses use only certain portions of textbooks, and universities and colleges have attempted to address this by creating photocopied course packs that include readings from a variety of sources.

In return, Access Copyright licences businesses to make legal copies of copyrighted materials and collects royalties — as high as 10 cents per page — based on the number of pages copied to create the course packs. The royalties are distributed to member publishers.

UTPPrint at the University of Toronto – which has a licence from Access Copyright – makes photocopied course packs for between 200 and 300 courses. It has seen a 10 per cent drop in sales year over year, says Frank Myers, general manager for digital printing operations.

"You run up against a threshold with students. If they look at a 100-page pack selling for $70 at the bookstore, and then they realize there are lots of places that offer copies for as little as three cents a page, it's peanuts," said Myers.

Advocates say many students are left with little choice.

"Students are put in a financial crunch when it comes to having to pay their tuition and their textbooks and their living expenses. Something's got to give," said Rebecca Rose, vice-president (education) of the Ryerson Students' Union.

"If you can bring down your expenses in some way, the only way you could do that is in the area of textbooks."

In September, the provincial government began offering an annual $150 textbook and technology grant for students already on the Ontario Student Assistance Plan.

Shelley Melanson, chair of the Canadian Federation of Students, Ontario, says while the grant is a step in the right direction, it's hardly adequate for students facing textbook costs of $600 a semester.

"If the government really wants to increase access to the knowledge-based economy, they have to make school more affordable," said Melanson. "There's a shift taking place in our economy where 70 per cent of jobs now require some kind of post-secondary education."

University students aren't the only ones making use of the lucrative illegal photocopying industry. One Toronto shop offered ready-made photocopied study guides for the Chartered Financial Analyst course — a three-year program leading to the highly sought CFA designation, common among financial industry employees.

A new set of study guides published by Kaplan Schweser costs $400. The Star was able to obtain a photocopied set for $160 at Quality Control Copy Centre on Bloor St., just north of the U of T campus.

Acting on a tip from a previous customer, a reporter posing as a CFA student approached manager Tim Nguyen and uttered the word "Schweser." In a meeting at which few words were exchanged, Nguyen presented the reporter with a small piece of paper on which he wrote down a price. With a nod of the head, the deal was done.

While Nguyen acknowledged that selling copies of the guides was illegal, he nonetheless told the reporter to return the following evening to pick them up.

When the reporter identified himself after receiving the copied study guides, Nguyen offered to take the books back, throw them in the garbage and refund the money. He denied keeping an inventory of books in the store and said he obtained the books from a friend and copied it as a favour.

"We don't want trouble. Now we understand the law," Nguyen said, vowing never again to sell another photocopied textbook of any kind.

Mark Harrad, a spokesperson for Kaplan Schweser, said his company will take legal action if it has enough evidence that large-scale copyright infringement is taking place.

The damages for continued copyright infringement can be harsh. In August, Happy Copy Centre in Scarborough was ordered to pay damages of $183,000 to Access Copyright after 183 photocopied textbooks were discovered on the premises. The copy centre is no longer in business.

In March 2005, the Federal Court ordered Lac Van Nguyen, owner of Apex Copy Centre on Gerrard St. E., to pay Access Copyright nearly $260,000 in damages for repeated copyright infringements. This followed the discovery of a large-scale textbook photocopying operation at the shop. This shop too has since gone out of business.

A raid on U Compute shop in Montreal in January 2004 uncovered more than 2,200 textbooks available for copy, and 2,100 illegal digital files. Access Copyright estimates the inventory cost publishers, authors and booksellers about $250,000 in lost revenue.

Last year the Federal Court handed owner Riaz Lari a six-month prison sentence for violating the earlier court orders to stop selling photocopied textbooks. He was also ordered to pay Access Copyright $650,000 in damages.

What responsibility, if any, do copy shop owners have for ensuring customers aren't breaking any copyright laws when using self-serve machines?

Access Copyright's position is that such a practice amounts to authorization of infringement, an offence under the Act.

But Tony Riu, owner of Goodview Copy and Computer Centre on College St., just across from the U of T campus, said he can't be expected to police his customers.

"I'm not a police officer. I don't work for the government or Access Copyright. I can't be expected to check customers' copies," Riu said. "These people are grown-up people. They should know what they're copying."

[Apasholimenos]

Олег,
Где пропадали так долго?!

[Nastiok]

На первом семестре, когда никого не знала, ничего не знала и была наивна как ребёнок, то книги покупала в буксторе. С возврастом и колличеством потраченных денег на учебу, моё отношение на копирайт изменилось. Копируют все и всё. У нас даже есть свой человек, который оптом это делает, мы ему скидываем деньги и он на весь клас копирует. Когда постарше по курсам, или же просто, когда завелся круг знакомств, то книгами обмениваемся. Но покупать новые...увольте.
Если ты тратишь около 600 дол на сам курс, а книга к нему тянет на 250, то это издевательство. Мало того, например по математике, книга отдельно, решения к задачам отдельно. Правда, когда уже идет узкая специализация на старших курсах, то в основном учаться со слайдов, которые профессора выставляют онлайн. Так, что в книгах, потребность отпадает.

[Oleg]

Олег,
Где пропадали так долго?!

I am still here.

Back in December, I noticed that I was getting addicted to this forum. So I decided to stay away from the forum for a couple of months.

I am so sorry that you were told that you might have to wait for three years... I hope that soon things will work out for the best, for you!

[kalinovka]

Nastiok , а если не секрет, где учились ? На какой специальности ?

[Apasholimenos]

Back in December, I noticed that I was getting addicted to this forum. So I decided to stay away from the forum for a couple of months.

Не самый плохой аддикшен! Только, знаете, любой нарколог Вам скажет: если у человека уже развилась, например, алкогольная зависимость, то, как бы долго он ни воздерживался от алкоголя — три месяца, год, десять лет, — стоит ему снова начать пить, как зависимость тут же вернется в ту же стадию, на которой была в начале воздержания; так что воздерживаться на три месяца — бесполезно: нужно или насовсем завязывать, или уж продолжать предаваться пороку. В Вашем случае я считаю, что бросать уже поздно

I am so sorry that you were told that you might have to wait for three years... I hope that soon things will work out for the best, for you!

Если Вы это обо мне, то нет, дело обстоит вовсе не так. Никаких трех лет... То есть в самом начале процесса, в 2007 году, мне говорили про три года, это Вы верно помните, но, слава богу, ждать так долго не пришлось

[Oleg]

> если у человека уже развилась, например, алкогольная зависимость, то, как бы долго он ни воздерживался от алкоголя — три месяца, год, десять лет, — стоит ему снова начать пить, как зависимость тут же вернется в ту же стадию, на которой была в начале воздержания



> То есть в самом начале процесса, в 2007 году, мне говорили про три года

Oh, I thought I was reading a new post. I am glad that this was a misunderstanding!