Все видели?

[Me]

Стыдно-то как... Кто строил это все в Гонкувере? Кто софт писал? Правильно, они же. И тестировали небось они же и так же. На весь мир опозорились, нету слов.

[Oleg]

At first I didn't know what you were talking about. But then I read the news.

When you say "они", who are you talking about?

Personally, I am embarrassed by the way that luge track was built. It is also shocking that Canada limited the time foreign athletes could spend training on that track...

Turns out: "Training restrictions started January 1 of this year whereby only Canada and Developing Nations had access. " That makes it Even Worse.

[Nega]

.

[Me]

Нет, я не про эту трагедию с грузинским спортсменом. Там тоже, конечно, есть много вопросов...
Но сейчас я про церемонию открытия Олимпиады.

VANCOUVER, British Columbia -- Word is quickly spreading that the Superman's Fortress of Solitude-like Winter Olympic cauldron in the middle of BC Place malfunctioned during the Opening Ceremonies, as only three of four "ice spiers" rose as expected, making for an awkward moment in the Opening Ceremony's climactic torch-lighting pageantry.

With Canadian sports icons and torch bearers Catriona LeMay Doan (speed skater), Steve Nash (NBA), Nancy Greene (ski racer) and Wayne Gretzky (NHL) standing around the middle of the stadium, the cauldron was due to rise from the ice, accompanied by cracking sounds over the PA system.

They waited ... and waited ... and then the music accompanying the torch lighting suddenly stopped for a moment, before the spires began to rise much like the large totems did during the First Nations segment earlier in the ceremony.

In the end, three of the four towers fell into place around the glittering ice torch. As you can see from the images above and to the right, from the previously embargoed media guide given out at BC Place, this was not the plan at all.

The fans inside the stadium weren't privy to that plan and obviously didn't hear any news of the malfunction while the ceremony commenced, so the night itself wasn't affected.
Ссылка.

[Бойцовый кролик]

Мда... Вот тебе и Канадские инженеры и строители (это к недавним обсуждениям)...

P.S.: Да, кстати, трагедия с грузинским спортсменом, как выяснилось, не касается канадских проектировщиков и строителей.
Исключительно вина самого спортсмена...
Так и сказали.

Это как Первоисточник можно? Если бы такой комментарий позволили бы себе владельцы какой-нибудь трассы "Формулы 1" в похожем случае, международные спортивные власти съели бы их с дерьмом.

[Nega]

.

[mulineshka]

Честно говоря, мне сия конструкция напомнила противотанковый еж

[DonPedro]

И в добавок даже гимн не смогли пропеть. Обыдна, да?
The lip-synching singers -- Lip-synching is a given when it comes to performances in huge venues. The risk of technical difficulties, the lack of monitors and trouble with acoustics necessitate recording a back-up track. But usually when this happens, the performers who are going about the lip-synching do a decent job of hiding the fact that they're not really singing. That didn't happen Friday night in Vancouver. From "O Canada" singer Nikki Yanofsky to Nelly Furtado to Bryan Adams to a tap dancer whose tapping sounds were obviously pre-recorded, every performer at the Opening Ceremony had difficulty keeping up with the track. Nobody expects live singing anymore, but at least make a good attempt to fool us, you know? At least the slam poetry guy was on a live mic.

[Oleg]

Nega, I haven't seen the opening ceremonies (yet?). I spoke with people who saw it, and I understand where you are coming from. But I disagree with your statement below.

Не проходит бесследно строит-во жилья из картона, повседневная одежда в виде джинсов, футболок, кроссовок, еда фаст-фудная и культур-мультур соответственный. Да и медицину а-ля "примите Тайленор намба такой-то" не грех в этот ряд поставить.

Wouldn't you agree that the outcome where over 50% of the population can afford a home, is better than the outcome where 5% can afford a "quality" home? (I am making these numbers up.) Besides, currently 5% Do live in quality homes. So the two alternatives are either force the other 45% to live in apartment buildings, or allow them to buy homes of lower quality. The fact that those people bought homes implies that they would rather live in low quality homes, than in apartment buildings.

As for the quality of the apartment buildings, higher quality would result in higher rents. If people actually preferred to pay higher rents for higher quality, then the newer apartment buildings would have higher quality. If this is not happening, it means that the demand for higher quality at a much higher price is low or nonexistent.


I am not sure what you have against "повседневная одежда в виде джинсов, футболок, кроссовок, еда фаст-фудная".

But I have strong feelings about your statement: "Да и медицину а-ля "примите Тайленор намба такой-то"". The quality of our health care system is comparable to the quality of the U.S. system.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison ... re_systems
This is remarkable, given that our system is free. The higher taxes that we pay for access to this system, are lower than what Americans pay for their health insurance. When an American loses his or her job, they also lose their insurance. Once one gets sick in U.S., one's insurance premiums skyrocket. In Canada, we don't have to worry about any of that.

In your quote above, you must be talking about the emergency care at Canadian hospitals. Clearly that care is top notch in cases of true emergencies like car accidents and heart attacks. As I pointed out earlier, when one comes to the emergency with symptoms of cancer, the doctors there shouldn't be treating one's cancer. They are going to refer one to see the cancer specialist.

In any case - what are the alternatives for people who were born in USSR? I think nobody is questioning whether Canadian health care system is better than that in Ukraine or Russia. And Sergey's recent experiences show that one wouldn't want to live in Europe even if the health care system there is slightly better (and I have my doubts about that).

[Бойцовый кролик]

But I have strong feelings about your statement: "Да и медицину а-ля "примите Тайленор намба такой-то"". The quality of our health care system is comparable to the quality of the U.S. system.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison ... re_systems
This is remarkable, given that our system is free. The higher taxes that we pay for access to this system, are lower than what Americans pay for their health insurance. When an American loses his or her job, they also lose their insurance. Once one gets sick in U.S., one's insurance premiums skyrocket. In Canada, we don't have to worry about any of that.

In your quote above, you must be talking about emergency care at Canadian hospitals. Clearly that care is top notch in cases of true emergencies like car accidents and heart attacks. As I pointed out earlier, when one comes to the emergency with symptoms of cancer, the doctors there shouldn't be treating one's cancer. The are going to refer one to see the cancer specialist.

In any case - what are the alternatives for people who were born in USSR. I think nobody is questioning whether Canadian health care system is better than that in Ukraine or Russia. And Sergey's recent experiences show that one wouldn't live in Europe even if the health care system there is slightly better (and I have my doubts about that).

Ваша аргументация напоминает совковое: "А у вас негров линчуют!" Тот факт что канадская медицина лучше, (вернее дешевле, хотя для вас это синонимы ) чем американская, не делает ее свободной от критики. Я более чем уверен, что канадским медикам есть чему поучится у российских, украинских, а тем более у американских коллег.

[Oleg]

Я более чем уверен, что канадским медикам есть чему поучится у российских, украинских, а тем более у американских коллег.

What kind of an argument is that? Are you saying that Russians, Ukranians, and Americans have nothing to learn from Canadians? And if the answer is "yes, they have something to learn from us", then what is your point?

Her specific criticism was that one is likely to receive Tylenol-3 if one goes to the Emergency. I addressed this criticism.

I also provided a link that lists numerous studies that seem to confirm that it is not clear which system (the American system, or the Canadian system) is better. So it is a safe bet to conclude that the quality is similar. Why is that not relevant?

[Me]

Oleg, я не думаю, что здесь кто-то что-то хочет сказать плохое в адрес Канады в целом и все такое. Идет нормальный процесс брюзжания про политику, про строителей, про медицину, про бюрократов, про китайцев погоду в конце концов. Имеем право! Я, например, свято уверен, что то говно сооружение проектировали и строили китайцы канадцы из Ванкувера. Потому мы имеем то, что имеем.

<крик души>Скажите мне, как можно написать триггер, который фиксит баг в другом триггере? Причем поскольку очередность выполнения триггеров не гарантирована, то этот второй триггер кладется в бэкграунд, и там дожидается завершение первого триггера, и только потом фиксится ошибка, и завершается бэкграунд процесс. Неделя работы девелопера, гениальный шедевр как результат. Ну как моск у людей устроен-то? Хорошо на code review человек сидит, а не обезьяна с гранатой. А то бы код прошел и тестинг, и попал бы в продакшн.</крик души>

[Nega]

.

[Serega]

</крик души>

Не в том месте кричиш, тут тебя мало кто поймет [это я про триггеры] и, соответственно, пожалеет

[Oleg]

Все эти фишки про кроссовки, которые удобнее шпилек (кто бы спорил, а?); про фастфуд, на который при приготовлении уйдет максимум минут 20, а не навороты в виде простого борща или супа а-ля "домашняя кухня", занимающих, как минимум, битый час;

Personally, I think that spending 20 minutes on cooking is crazy. The longest time I spend on cooking is the time it takes to open a bag of frozen fish fillets, and boil the fish.

If we can have a ceremony with some glitches, or have a ceremony without glitches at twice the cost, as a taxpayer, I would prefer the former. I am very glad that Canada didn't spend as much money on the ceremony as China (even though China's ceremony was better).

[Бойцовый кролик]

Personally, I think that spending 20 minutes on cooking is crazy. The longest time I spend on cooking is the time it takes to open a bag of frozen fish fillets, and boil the fish.

Я понял. Жрать дерьмо, жить в дерьме и лечиться дерьмом - это видимо и есть канадский стиль жизни... Зато дешево...

If we can have a ceremony with some glitches, or have a ceremony without glitches at twice the cost, as a taxpayer, I would prefer the former. I am very glad that Canada didn't spend as much money on the ceremony as China (even though China's ceremony was better).

Есть более эффективный способ экономии денег налогоплательщиков - вообще не проводить олимпиаду. Тем более есть мнение, что даже с ляпами во время церемонии открытия она не принесет прибыли:http://txt.newsru.com/finance/12feb2010/vanquver.html

[Anastassia]

Меня окромя застрявшего фаллического символа столба ещё сильно поразили некоторые флагоносцы стран, которые жевали жвачку, когда выходили на арену. Как-то не комильфо имхо.

[Oleg]

P.S.: а в Африке дети голодают, да и в Гаити тоже...
Зачем вспоминать всуе бСССР, если есть контраргументы покруче?

It seems to me that, since none of us can actually change Canadian health care system, the only reason to talk about it (on this forum), is to determine what country people who care a lot about health care should move to. This is the reason why American, Ukranian, and Russian health care system are relevant, and what happens in Africa and Haiti is not.

Я понял. Жрать дерьмо, жить в дерьме и лечиться дерьмом - это видимо и есть канадский стиль жизни... Зато дешево...

You are ignoring all of my arguments that if something is not "top quality", it does not mean that it is not the best choice.

As well, you seem to not understand the concept of "trade-offs". Insisting on "top quality" means that you have to forego/forfeit something else. So yes, in Canada and the United States, most (rational) people's goal is to choose the optimal combination of goods, and not to choose the suboptimal combination of goods. In a suboptimal combinaiton of goods, some goods have the highest quality possible, and the other goods are not included, or are of actual "дерьмо-quality" (that would be unacceptable for an average Canadian). On second thought, I can see how people who have nothing, would take great pride in their home, or in the top quality of their food.

I eat mostly fruits, vegetables, nuts, yoghurt, and boiled seafood. I saw a nutritionist, and I know that my diet is providing me with all of the nutrients that my body needs. My diet is exceptionally healthy. Anyone who wants to maintain a healthy weight, and also is interested in making his or her food tastier, seems irrational to me. These goals seem to be contradictory. The tastier your food is, the harder it is to maintain a healthy weight. If I ever see a cookbook about how to make your food less appealing, I would definitely want to buy it. I stopped adding salt and spices to my food. Nuts, fruits and berries can be so tasty, that I have trouble with portion size control. At the same time, I am interested in getting the nutrition provided by those foods. If only there was a way to eat fruits, nuts, and berries and not be tempted to overeat...

Есть более эффективный способ экономии денег налогоплательщиков - вообще не проводить олимпиаду.

It is my understanding that the hope is that we can attract tourists to Canada. I don't think the quality of the Opening Ceremony will make a big difference in how many tourists will come here in the next 10 years. So the goal should be to minimize the cost of the ceremony. Having said this, I support the people who protested the Games.

[Lark]

Я понял. Жрать дерьмо, жить в дерьме и лечиться дерьмом - это видимо и есть канадский стиль жизни... Зато дешево...

По-моему, это вопрос мироощущения и образа жизни.
Я, например, за 10 лет жизни в Канаде не чувствую, что я "жру дерьмо, живу в дерьме и лечусь дерьмом".

[Lark]

Честно говоря, мне сия конструкция напомнила противотанковый еж

И мне тоже!